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Good point brought up about stop loss.
Before we go into dissection of the points, facts and practices.
Let me say something very important.
One very important trait of a good trader is that they do not take most things lying down, unless they have no opinion of the issues.
This is because good traders are very proactive in their actions, seldom sitting on sidelines. This characteristics translate into their trading, mindset and proactive levels.
If one sits on the side like spectators, chances are that they are non-reactive and dormant in actions during their trading as well, or slow to reactions.
Let me try to explain in an analogy.
If a person watches a marathon race,tods shoes online,chances are that unless that same has been participants before, the likely hood is that they have the opinion (feel) that they can do better. That is until they come on as participation, before they can empathies with the scene.Mostly we believe that we can do stuff well, until, we are truly tested. So trading like most things in life is cannot be learn from "learning by watching". There is mark difference in knowing and having the ability to do.
One thingy I watch out for in training dealers is to watch for this. I KNOW that those who ask questions and participate in the "fight " comes out educated, benefiting from the "fight", whereas those that behave like spectators gain nothing,tods gommino, because they only learn from one faculty, whereas those that fought went in with all faculties. The most important is "feel" which one can only get from being party to event. there is also the body chemical aspect of endophines levels , which is part of the mind memory process. This is quite similar to muscle memory as in golf.
10.2
The ISSUE stop loss order.
What is a stop loss order?
A stop loss order is basically a limit order.
This limit order automatically becomes a market order to fill, once limit specification is triggered.
Stop Limit orders: specify limits of slippage, exceeding which the order resinds.
The use of this sort of orders are normally placed at critical "BREAK" zones , either to prevent over losses in fast market situations or to limit exposures.
"Smart" traders use it as entries for break of ranges. To captalise on getting on runs after breaks. So it is the "stupid" traders that will sit at these levels to give away positions on breaks. Thats what many is lead to believe. The truth is that these zones are vacuum zones in reality. As even the most "stupid" traders in the world know how not to trade against breaks.
Stop orders normally fill with slippage to the disadvantage of the order always. There is no OB possibilities, if any trader gets an OB fill , please come and tell me.
If you had ever seen 3 phenning (300 pips)gaps , you would understand what I am talking about. I believe many may not have seen this as most retail traders are new to the business. This brings us to the subject of liquidity and illiquid markets, another topic ,,,,later.
In the futures market context, ask any pit trader , if they had seen possibilities of fill upon market at day limit. Ask any pork bellies trader, coffee,sugar,....etc, what happens when the market goes on 5 continuous limits. Ask them about stop loss fills.
Fortunately Forex markets have no day limits, nevertheless 300 pips gaps, although not prevalent is nevertheless possible. Pray that you do not live to see market meltdown situations. It will open your eyes. If you have the time , go study what happen to the markets on the nikkei systemic failure that took nick leeson out. Study the event and then come and educate me on what actually happened. Ask option writer about ability to delta neutralise positions in such scenarios.
As a matter of fact,buy tods uk, traders gets killed, not because of the price volatility, but because of size caught. In reality it is the stop loss order that will kills the traders, due their belief that the large positions are protected by the stops. In effects they get the fills at the extremes when markets unlock and swing back after the market has found equlibrium.
For pros , they are always on the look out for the possibilities , therefore as rule of thumb , always have contingencies in excess of up to 90% of cap as contingencies for the eventualities. These can survive the abrasion in these mkts. This are dangers of mkt's possibility at extreme.
What's really disturbing , is the abuse of stop loss order by overleveraged & undercapitalised traders , normally putting then at vacuum zones , within the volatility band of possibilities. This is prevalent for day chart traders, who,tods mens shoes, are in actuality putting stops in markets based on day volatilities bands, while trading on the weeks or months volatility bands because they are not watching their babies.
Ask any true market gurus, if they have to put stops , these are placed leaps off extreme tops and bottoms for ride capabilities. They pray that the stops never fills, as being stopped out could mean heavy %es off the book. Then there are pseudo gurus who advocates close stop strategies, by marketing long trend runs scenarios to sell wares. And the masses swallow hook ,line and sinker.
There are many long term position traders in mkts, subscribing to their ability to hold mindset for weeks and months, going against the grains of the human nature composition. One of the strongest human emotional mindset capabilities is the ######ual urge. How long do you think you can maintain that mindset? And we can be sold that the human can be disciplined enough to hold infinite expectancy mindset if we follow a "system". Mostly only failing and not taking profits due to mindset failure.
Mostly allowing profits to turn to losses or capturing head and tails of movements at best. And they ask, why they fail. Sure once in a blue moon , they may ride a satisfactory run, But mostly in detriment. Can we call them professionals?
I put it to you , that the pro, works like ants . collecting daily. Once in a blue moon , he gets caught in an unexpected attrition, but only due to inattentiveness, probably still coming out in the plus, net off.
The truth of the matter is if you have to trade with stops, "if you cannot take the heat, don;t get into the kitchen." Let alone gearing it.
I say beware the trap in your mindset, not the curve ball.
Trailing stop loss orders next....
10.3
Originally Posted by jest1081
oh i just saw this post while i was tracing back the thread.
I must say sorry, my bad.
I have traded for sometime, well not as long as you but this is my sixth year since i have started trading.
It took me 4 long years to finally find myself in a profitable position, losing and losing, profit and losing again until i understood what stability truely is. I guess im a slow learner. And 2 years down the road i am still working hard to get myself to become financially free.
My reason for seeking your assistance in giving examples is:
1. In many instances, you will not be ard to police our trading, live.
2. In many cases, when martingling is involved, no matter how much books or words in psychology, there is bound to be many traders who will find themselve in an extremely bad position. The mental strength required to be in such a position is extremely huge. Even you conceded that you tremble at times. Getting the balls of steel is no mean feat.
but nevertheless after re-reading this thread a few times (yes i did, i'm a lurker ), i am slowly getting the point. The risks are small, but its starting to worry me that some already preffered doing rescues than making a clean attack? is it because a clean attack usaually results in smaller profits?
I'll continue demoing and try to learn as much as possible, it may take sometime, probably a long time. Thanks fti and all. Again, my sincere apologies.
best regards
jest
Hi jest,
Really no apologies is necessary.
I do like to stress a very important point since it creeped into my mind.
Do not think that all positions are to be rescued.
The invokement of the MO, is dependent on the dance sequence as well as the cap position of the trader. This is especially so if the dance in in effect out of sync with trader. ie caught on wrong side of the trend. Under this circumstances rescue is fool hardy. You can see this example in the position on the Euro recently. To rescue a "dead in the waters" case is craziness. With dance experience, you will notice that every nerve in the body is in revolt to your such decision and in effect a gambling mindset takes hold. If in doubt when you become too nervous on position rescues, listen to your body. Bite the bullet and take the pain and Imean cut loose. For newbies it may be hard to differentiate this body language that their bicam mind sends out, as they are probably even nervous even with the scout. For seasoned traders, it becomes very recognisable.
As in the story that was posted , when Karl, made the statement that he cannot lose somuch. iTs SIGN but already way overdued. Normally others around the trader can recognise this signs eaily, due to not in state of mindframe. The worst is for traders in the same state to come in consolation of each other. That is why , I have the buddy system in the rooms. So that another of senior capacity comes in rescue of an "outed" trader. Never trade against trend,tods shoes sale uk, trend based on the highs and lows relationship. NEVER try to rescue those. Rescue there will lead to rogue trading. That's where "cutting your losses short", comes in play. Sad to say nick lost his head to egor there. So please, no more bad sheeps. This being my greatest fear for some of you.
Another thing is that tables of MM are helpful initially for training. Once experienced , these tend to get in the way of reflex capabilities. Drop that training wheel (borrowed from northpro, thanks), as soon as you feel that the mindset is developing so as to advance the mind development. Alway be mindful of the geometrical nature of rescues. No two rescue will be the same.This is hard to explain, I hope I c...